THE MELVYN BRAGG INTERVIEW: THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY

First broadcast on ITV 19 June 2005

This excerpt deals with Women Bishops - reproduced by permission of ITV

Melvyn Bragg
About 30 years ago it was decided in the Church of England that it was fine for women to be priests and bishops, and yet here we are still debating whether they can be bishops with a – and it's going to be debated again next month. Why has it taken so long?

Archbishop
I guess it’s partly because the church tends to move only when there is more than just a minimum consensus on this. And the consensus about the ordination of women as priests was not, I think, as big as some people would have liked it to be. It’s taken longer for it to - to be accepted, even when the vote had been taken. And inevitably, if you want a high degree of consensus, it’s going to take some time. The arguments haven’t gone away. So, when it comes to women bishops a lot of the old arguments are still there, and for some people are stronger than ever because a step like this will create arguably more problems in our - our inter-church conversations.

Melvyn Bragg
There are other countries inside the Anglican communion, where women are bishops, and the word lagging has been used of the Anglican church in this country. There's a huge – 39 out of 43 diocesan bishops are supposed to be in favour, the majority of the laity – 90%. These are the figures on this sheet of paper, so they must be true [Laughter]. So that seems to be fairly substantial and conclusive?

Archbishop
It still leaves I think a quite significant body of clergy who’ve got anxieties about it, and who feel themselves more in the front line on this. I think with a number of other people I would instinctively say, if it takes a bit longer to make the decision, but the decision when it’s made really is firmly made, that’s probably better in the long run for everyone. But it doesn’t feel like that I think for people who - who sense the Church dragging its feet. And I, you know, I hear a great deal of this from women who are anxious and almost feel betrayed by the slow pace.

Melvyn Bragg
Does it help the cause of this that evidence is now - fairly recent evidence is now available to show that women exercised quite substantial authority in the early church?

Archbishop
That’s a can of worms as a scholarly issue. And I think what’s tempting is to project back onto the early Church a structure and a system exactly like ours. Certainly women exercised authority in some areas and throughout the Middle Ages, of course, exercised huge authority through Monastic networks. Teresa of Avila is a much more important figure in 16th century Spain than most of the Spanish Bishops whose names have been forgotten! But some would say, - and that’s the point - that there’s not just one kind of authority, or one kind of liberty in the Church; if women exercised immense authority in the early church, was it the same kind as we now associate with bishops? That’s the argument. I don’t think myself it’s conclusive but that’s where it’s coming from.

Melvyn Bragg
Can you see a time when a woman will be Archbishop of Canterbury?

Archbishop
If the Church of England decides to ordain women as bishops then I think it would be very difficult to, to restrict that. But that brings in the other question of course of the Anglican Communion, and what would be the critical mass of support for women bishops in the Anglican Communion that would make it possible to have a woman Archbishop of Canterbury. So while I might not personally see any theological objection, I can see quite a lot of hurdles to be overcome there.

END